torsdag, maj 22, 2008

Conversations with Guru Hashi Mashi about creating Life-Visions















B: I’ve been thinking about creating a vision for my life. I listened to this great Coach today and got a lot of inspiration. Do you think it’s a good idea for me to spend some time each day to work on my vision?
GHM: In order to create a vision you have to pretend that there is a future and that there is someone to create the vision. Do you believe in these illusions? You know, the future is like a cloud in the sky and the creator of a vision is like another cloud in the sky. Tomorrow these clouds will be gone, maybe they will transform into raindrops that fall on your head, or maybe on your glasses, drops of water that you will have to wipe away.
B: But everybody else is creating visions and I want to join them in this game, it seems to be a very entertaining game. But there is more to this matter of creating a vision. I´ve been thinking lately, well, for quite a time actually, about what I’m supposed to do in this life. This bodymind called Björn want’s to contribute in some way but I don’t know how!
GHM: What is Trust? Tell me Björn! Have you forgotten your lessons?
B: No, I have not forgotten. Do you want me to focus on the experience of trust?
GHM: Do you remember what Trust is, Trust with a capital T?
B: Sometimes I think that trust is another illusion, not more real than anything else. Sometimes trust is there, sometimes it’s not. You always say something that is there one moment and gone the next is not real. Is trust real?
GHM: Very good! I’m proud of you Björn!
B: Are you?
GHM: Oh yes, very proud!
B: I´ve been reading about Integral Theory like it’s explained in the books of Ken Wilber. He says that there are ascenders and descenders, that we all can experience these two movements of spirit in ourselves. Being an ascender is to go with the pull of spirit from form to the formless. Being a descender is to go with the pull of spirit from the formless to form. Ascenders are longing for freedom and ascenders are longing for love, for becoming united with form. Ken Wilber says that we have to realize that both the longing for freedom and the longing for love are part of life and has to be honoured and included. I don’t know if I have expressed this in an understandable way, but the thing is that your teaching seems to be directed primarily towards the formless. It’s all about freedom. You are a hard-core ascender. I feel that the love-part is missing in your teaching. You don’t seem to be interested in form.
GHM: Ken Wilber is very good at “mindfucking”. He is playing with empty concepts and I am surprised to hear that you believe his words are pointing to something important. Now I’m very dissapointed with you Björn!
B: I know it’s all a play with concepts. But they seem to be pointing to something real. It makes sense that spirit works in both ways. I mean, you have teached me all about the formless, and I’m very grateful for that. But if only the formless is real, why is form there?
GHM: You tell me, you know the answer!
B: I know the traditional answer, forms are like the waves on the ocean, and the formless is like all the water in the ocean. The waves are not separate from the rest of the ocean. The waves are not even separate from each other. My current life siuation and an imagined future life situation, A Vision, are nothing but two different waves. The “I” that wants to go from one wave to another wave is also a wave, a third wave. So what we have here are three different waves that seem to be separated and different in quality, there seems to be some kind of dynamic in this game, but it’s nothing but water playing with itself. Oh, I forgot, the play between these three waves is a fourth wave. And all the four waves are the same water.
GHM: Go on, you are doing very well on this, I think I’m proud of you after all.
B: Well, the problem here is that if the “I-wave” is trying to go from the “Now-situation-wave” to the “Vision-wave”, the “Vision-wave” will be gone and so will the “I-wave”. It’s all constantly changing and therefore illusory.
The conclusion seems to be that there is nothing else to do than resting in the suchness of reality, that is in water. There is nothing but water. It’s all the same.
GHM: You are not quite right! Why should you rest? What is resting?
B: Oh, I forgot, resting is also a wave, a temporary form and therefore unreal. Resting is also water. But you see, this might sound silly, but there is something that always makes me upset with this teaching of yours. If all forms are the same, it means that it doesn’t matter what form you choose. This whole wiew seems to lack any kind of morality. To torture someone is the same as making love to someone. It’s all water so it doesn’t matter.
GHM: You are absolutely right!
B: But you can’t live like that. It could become very destructive.
GHM: You are absolutely right!
B: So what should we do? Don’t we have to invent good and bad in order to make society work
GHM: You tell me!
B: I think we have to. I also think we have to create visions for ourselves, positive, beautiful visions that keep us on the right track.
GHM: It sounds like a good idea.
B: But it’s all illusion, isn’t it? It’s all the same anyway.
GHM: You are right!
B: Okay, now I know what my real question is. Once we realize the suchness of everything, realize that all the waves are exactly the same water and that we never actually go anywhere in space or time since we all in reality are the same ocean, the same water, once we realize that, we become awakened. This awakening is a very big shift, it’ even more radical than waking up from a dream.But what are we supposed to do when there is nothing to do and no-one to do it? Are we just going to remind ourselves of this fact every day for the rest of our lives, or are we going to do something else. You see, it’s easy to fall back into the dreamstate.
GHM: You are not supposed to do anything with your awakening. There is no one to do anything, remember....
B: Come on, Hashi Mashi, you say that Ken Wilbers ideas are like “Mindfucking”, but this seems even more like a play of concepts, like some very abstract ideas that make us detached from reality and free from responsibility since there is no one to be responsible. That is a thought that pops up in my mind and it’s very disturbing even if it’s unreal. What do you say about that?
GHM: I say that you love “Mindfucking”.
B: But come on, listen to me. This is a very serious problem for me. You see, this Ken Wilber also says that the experience of the formless – what you call Reality – is a state of consciousness he calls the casual state, a state that you can interpret differently depending on what structure of consciousness you are at. With structure of consciousness he means how mature you are. If you are very mature you care a lot about other people and ask questions about what is best for not only yourself, but for other poeple as well. If you on the other hand are very immature, you don’t care about other people at all. When I hear that, I become afraid that I interpret the experience of the Real in a way that is immature.
You see, I don’t question that you have actually teached me to see reality as it is, to see throught all the veils of illusion, to see the formless true essence, the suchness, What Ken Wilber calls The Causal State, BUT what i question is how I interpret this experience. Maybe there is a better interpretation
GHM: I understand that your doubts are important for you. But what I want you to find out is if there actually is any experience going on in the causal state. If there is not, there is no experience to interpret? Have you ever thougt about that?
B: But there is a memory of this state. There must be something to leave a memory, if not an experience, then something else. And this something could be interpreted differently like everything else. Don’t you agree? If I could stay in the causal state all the time there would be no problem, then the mind couldn’t come in and make different interpretations. But no one can stay in the causal state all the time. Not even you, am I right?
GHM: That is correct.
B: So, when your consciousness is in another state, like the subtle or the gross state, what is that like for you? Don’t you have to remind yourself of the suchness of reality, don’t you use pointers like – there is always the present moment, it’s always the Now, therefore, past and future are illusory. Don’t you use pointers like that to stay awake?
GHM: Why do you think I have to use the pointers of Eckhart Tolle? I have my own pointers that work much better!
B: Ok, sorry, but whatever pointers you use, your mind has to sometimes remember what you know in the causal state. Right?
GHM: In the causal state there is no one who knows anything.
B: Ok, whatever, but right now you know that you are talking to me, don’t you?
GHM: You are right. But what you don’t understand is that you can’t interpret the Now, you can only interpret an illusion. You can only interpret something that appears to occur in time. You see, the process of interpretation is not possible without the illusion of time. Interpretation deals with phenomena that you remember, that is, phenomena from the past, which are illusions. Think about that! I have to admit that this Now-pointer of Eckhart Tolle is a pretty good pointer sometimes. There is nothing but the Now and the Now can’t be interpreted.
B: Oh!
GHM: So the question if an illusion can be interpreted in a mature way seems to be a nice “Mindfuck” by Ken Wilber.
B: I guess you are right. But I am not quite satisfied with your answers.
GHM: That is not a problem as long as you pay me a thousand dollars per hour for these nice little chats....
B: I want to play the game of time. It’s that simple!
GHM: Be my guest! But don’t blame me if you mess it up.
B: I want to create a beautiful Vision for my illusory future.
GHM: As I said, be my guest! You can create whatever illusions you want, it won’t make any difference. Like you said, it’s all the same.
B: I know that I know this. I know that I am awake. But I get bored. Don’t you think that is why spirit created the illusion of separation, because spirit got bored?
GHM: That could be.
B: I want to take advantage of my awakening in some way and use it to create a Vision for my life. A vision about how the awakened state can be a platform for positive change.
GHM: Be my guest!

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2 kommentarer:

  1. Det här samtalet var verkligen givande, tack för att du delar den med oss andra. Vill också säga att jag läser allt du skriver även om jag int kommenterar så ofta.

    SvaraRadera
  2. tack, det gör mig glad att det jag skriver kan vara givande för andra. Läser på din blogg också, och det hjälper mig. Vi är så många nu som lever med ett helt nytt fokus, ett helt nytt mindset. Det är lätt att glömma bort, men det är bara att gå in på sina favoritbloggar så känner man kraften...
    Har nu länkat till din blogg härifrån.

    SvaraRadera

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